102 replies to this topic

[DEVIN]

or would any song sound the same if not for the computer?
GOD v.s. COMPUTER ~this fall on FOX

[Keith]

Thanks Sarah, this thread went to hell quickly.

I would rather live my life the way that I think it should be lived, instead of taking a 50/50 chance and living it the way that a man-written text tells me I should (which contradicts itself in so many ways).

[kahla]

ps - my my little philosophical theory is called pascal's wager.

[that guy kevin]

The question of gods existance is easy to answer. God is not a universal thing, it only exists in your mind. Being an anti-religious person I can say objectively that if you believe in god it exists, if you dont then it does not exist. Thats how it is end of story. I am not here to patronize you believers, but wouldnt everyone believe in god if it was truely the single being in the universe...the creator of all? I stand by my belief that god is a single mind creation that has spread like a plague, if everyone told you blue was really green then green would be blue would it not? Dont believe everything you hear, god exists in your mind and does not need to be exploited into the mass societical public. Dont go to church as it is a money mungering corperation, praying doesnt take a building, you can do it at home. It doesnt need to be on TV, the radio, the internet, or anywhere else for that matter because if you truely believe none of that would matter now would it? Believe in what you want, dont expect everyone to have the same beliefs, all religions are the same, they aim to control the mass. Controling the mind of the world takes popularity of the population, dont give in to the words of the defiers. God is what you make it not what someone tells you.

[Carl]

The question of gods existance is easy to answer. God is not a universal thing, it only exists in your mind. Being an anti-religious person I can say objectively that if you believe in god it exists, if you dont then it does not exist. Thats how it is end of story. I am not here to patronize you believers, but wouldnt everyone believe in god if it was truely the single being in the universe...the creator of all? I stand by my belief that god is a single mind creation that has spread like a plague, if everyone told you blue was really green then green would be blue would it not? Dont believe everything you hear, god exists in your mind and does not need to be exploited into the mass societical public. Dont go to church as it is a money mungering corperation, praying doesnt take a building, you can do it at home. It doesnt need to be on TV, the radio, the internet, or anywhere else for that matter because if you truely believe none of that would matter now would it? Believe in what you want, dont expect everyone to have the same beliefs, all religions are the same, they aim to control the mass. Controling the mind of the world takes popularity of the population, dont give in to the words of the defiers. God is what you make it not what someone tells you.

Paragraphs are your friend.

[DEVIN]

actually, the thought of "GOD" was probably an early form of government.
the people wanted to go to "heaven" so they were"good"
the people with power told them that if they were bad, they would go to"hell"


that makes sense, right?

[Keith]

Yeah, it makes sense, and is a viable option. I think that with an intelligent race, we are bound to have questions that we feel are unanswerable. Specific gods have been around since the dawn of man, pretty much every single gathering of people (tribe, city, village, whatever) has had some form of god that they pray to. Whether it be to pray in order to receive blessings, or to repent for something they feel is wrong, a god has been around to speak to. It's comforting. I'm agnostic and don't really have a set of beliefs, but in my darkest hours, I do pray that someone or something will help ease the pain. At least I can feel like someone is listening to me.

[Tyler-Durden]

first of all you all need to have a little faith now i'm not saying god exists or doesn't exist that's for you to decide even though I believe in god and furthermore i do not intend to change anyone's opinion but to state facts as to some things that occured in my mind as i was reading other responses.

now, the main point of religion is to have faith i do not believe that any faith is necessarily wrong but the idea of having faith is the important part. because without faith what do you have? not a whole lot. also what exactly happens to you if there is not a supreme good? the only logical thing to me is that you go to heaven(because i'm christian) or this one i can even begin to logicate (if that's a word. but you see what i'm getting at) is just not existing it is impossible to imagine much like void is because we need to fill things with color, for example i have often what it would be like to be color-blind.

Now i am not necessarily even saying there is a god i do however believe in a supreme good entity, and a supreme evil entity, because if you have one logically u must have the other. Also, this is gonna blow your mind...... If there isn't a god or supreme entity and even any kind of reward after death or eternal life, what point is there in being good in life? Logically then you would try to get everything you could in this life, and you would fear death with all that you possibly can. You would try to get as much money as you could try to get as many people to remember you as you can, etc.,etc.

also what hope do you have if you do not believe in any type of supreme good. Also, using religion as a form of government is sensible and plausible, however it is improbable. the first religions did not contain a belief about an eternal torment(ok well this is an educated guess i havent studied ancient religions for a while so..) however even the greeks believed that hades, the underworld even though it seemed evil, was the place everyone went when they died. They did however not have a belief about heaven that i recall. But as was said before improbable does NOT mean impossible.

But, the subject of "is god real or not" is somewhat trivial don't you think? we could all be doing something to help something or destroy something depending on your outlook on life, or you might just be like me and are really bored which is the reason this site is called that. Also the subject arises the questions of evolution or creation. now i believe in both i will not elaborate why. you figure it out. however if it was evolution i do not think that scientists should study it unless they can learn something useful from it. personally i dont care how i was created, hell i dont even want to be here. Whatever happened it was good for a time but now has gone bad. you know why? humans. we are destroying the earth. I agree with an idea in the book/movie Fight club by chuck palahniuck. That something should be done to put the human race into a social ice age a premature dark age. to damper the progress of human population long enough to let the world fix itself. Remeber dying is not a bad thing if you have faith.

But really if god existed or not do you think believers would stop believing in him or stop believing right away? no it would either take a while or strong enough believers woud not accept it. Whatever the case i don't care i believe you can do with your life what u want i dont care. and as i said b4 i'm not saying this to change opinions but to put out what i have on my mind.

[Christina]

It is up to the person to decide if there is god. I believe there is one because that is what i chose to do.

[Tyler-Durden]

are you agreeing with what i said. cuz i just said that like four times in my previous reply.

[Ryn]

People can restate things in their own voice, regardless if someone has said them.

[CaptainHenreh]

In ancient times there were great Sages.
Their way of living was so deep, so subtle,
it cannot be directly explained.
Instead, here is how they looked:

. . . Polite, as if they were always a guest
Yielding, like ice that is on the verge of melting
Sincere, like an uncut block of wood
Receptive, like a valley
Opaque, like muddy water

[Tyler-Durden]

how is an uncut block of wood sincere???

[Gecko]

how is an uncut block of wood sincere???

sincere = open and genuine; not deceitful.

Uncut wood is genuine, having not been changed or manipulated. It's kind of deep.

[Jason]

So I'm a christian, so obviously I believe in God. However, I am taking a Philosophy of Religion class that discusses God in a metaphysical sense, something that was hard for me to grasp. I always just founded my faith on the bible and that gut feeling that, "yeah, this makes sense"

My class approaches this in a different way, and I think its really neat. It starts with the basic principle that every being has the conditions for its existance either in itself or in another. The thing is, everything we experience right now is caused by something else. We do not have the conditions for our existance in ourselves, but instead our parents. Everything we know is conditioned on somethign else, leaving us with Infinate Regress, where all parts of the chain would be conditioned on something else. A chain like this leaves the conditions unsatisfied, which contradicts the existance of any being's existance.
What that boils down to is the neccesity for at least one unconditional being that has the coinditions for its existance in itself. This being, further down in the argument, is what we call God.

sorry. If anyone wants to hear more about this, let me know. otherwise, i'm just rambling.

The major flaw in this logic is that you assume the unconditional thing has to be a being of high power. There is no proof that this has to be so.

Just so everyone knows my view, I am not Athiest and I do not believe in any religion. I believe in temporal agnosticism. The fact of the matter is there is no proof a god exsist and there is no proof a god doesnt exsist. Thus this brings me to a point were I believe there is no point in living around a guess at what is right and backing it up with a flawed hyphothesis.

Edit: I am not great with words so perhaps the words of Thomas Huxley will do better at exaplaining my view.

I have never had the least sympathy with the a priori reasons against orthodoxy, and I have by nature and disposition the greatest possible antipathy to all the atheistic and infidel school. Nevertheless I know that I am, in spite of myself, exactly what the Christian would call, and, so far as I can see, is justified in calling, atheist and infidel. I cannot see one shadow or tittle of evidence that the great unknown underlying the phenomenon of the universe stands to us in the relation of a Father [who] loves us and cares for us as Christianity asserts. So with regard to the other great Christian dogmas, immortality of soul and future state of rewards and punishments, what possible objection can I—who am compelled perforce to believe in the immortality of what we call Matter and Force, and in a very unmistakable present state of rewards and punishments for our deeds—have to these doctrines? Give me a scintilla of evidence, and I am ready to jump at them.

Edited by Jason, 04 December 2005 - 02:57 AM.

[Samurai_Goat]

Dude, not only did you quote HUXLEY, you used a quote that contains words like "priori", "scintilla" and "tittle"?



NERD!!!!

And, coming from me, that's saying something.

[Jason]

And proud of it! (Warrant most people who know me IRL dont know I am a nerd.)

Also just so you know "priori" is not a word "a priori" is

Edited by Jason, 04 December 2005 - 03:55 AM.

[Strategery]

Actually, I think "priori" is a word and "a priori" is a phrase; while it would be inappropriate to not say the "a" before the "priori," there is technically a space there. I suppose hyphens had not been invented yet.

The way I feel about God, or perhaps religion, is as follows:

1) In 2,000 years, people will regard Christianity much like we regard the religious beliefs of the Ancient Egyptians, or the Greeks. Mythology. The definition of mythology: "A traditional, typically ancient story dealing with supernatural beings, ancestors, or heroes that serves as a fundamental type in the worldview of a people, as by explaining aspects of the natural world or delineating the psychology, customs, or ideals of society." A-ha. See, the definition doesn't say anything about "fictional." For all we know, the Egyptians were correct, and because we're not being mummified we're going to be spending our eternities in complete misery. However, if you'll read the definition and careful consider the Bible (any version or testament of it), you'll see it meets the criteria for mythology. And as you say "but the difference is, the Bible is true!" you'll be saying the exact same thing people have said for millenia about other systems of belief.

2) There's nothing wrong with believing in anything. I think evolution-wise, we were meant to believe in higher powers, as there are centers of the brain that seem to be highly linked to spirituality. The dangerous part is allowing your belief to control your desires and actions, as this part of religion HAS been used as a tool by governments to keep people "in line" throughout the centuries. Don't force your creation myths on school-children, for example; and if you do, do it in an appropriate class ("social studies" comes to mind). Don't tell women they aren't in control of what's inside their own bodes. And for the love of God (pun intended), don't let a few measly lines out of some book let you prevent people from being happy simply because YOU DON'T LIKE THE FACT that they're of the same sex and want to do things in private that you don't like.

3) If you're going to claim to be part of a religion, at least behave like it. I'm sick of being cut-off on the road by people with "I <3 JESUS" bumper stickers. Come on now, don't pick and choose.

I think religion is an entirely helpful thing. It organizes people in communities, for example, which I think is extremely beneficial. But people are often very much blinded by it, especially if they haven't been exposed to different points of view.

[CaptainHenreh]

sincere = open and genuine; not deceitful.

Uncut wood is genuine, having not been changed or manipulated. It's kind of deep.

Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power.